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Irish Main Title

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Michael Lückgen, Jul 14, 2023.

  1. #1 Michael Lückgen, Jul 14, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2023
    A few weeks ago I wanted to try out some new instrument library I got.
    Also, maybe I will be able to work on an adventure game in the near future, which is about druids, so I looked into celtic/irish music.

    I quickly composed a potential Main Theme for the game.

    Let me know what you guys think. Did I nail the idiom?

     
    Daniele Nasuti and David Healey like this.
  2. #2 Duncan Formosa, Jul 14, 2023
    I think you have a good piece in here, but if you are aiming for Irish music then I'm not sure you're getting that across in this piece. For me, it sounds more like pirate music like the monkey island games.

    I think this is down to the chords you are using and also the rhythm, the accordion in particular for me isn't saying Irish.

    Now, to be fair, it is a little tricky cause there are a number of Irish tunes that have a pirate like feel to them, but they are also distinctly Irish as opposed to the Caribbean style the monkey island games have for example.

    I realise this feedback might be a bit vague at the moment. What references did you use to try and get the style?
     
  3. #3 Michael Lückgen, Jul 14, 2023
    I was actually trying to make it similar to the Monkey Island Main Theme. I intentionally made the melody a bit similar, because the game it is suppossed to be for shows some direct influences of Monkey Island, so I figured the music should as well.
    Because of this I chose a similar chord progression.

    As references I listened to a few jiggs and reels. As far as I have seen there are also irish songs in minor, right? Or is this the main problem?

    I have looked at a few irish songs, but in particular I took these as reference for insturmentation:



    They use a accordion or concertina in the first song and according to me research it is a typical celtic instrument, isn't it?
    I took the rhythm of it from some youtube video which was explaining accompanimenting irish music.

    I noticed that too. It was hard for me to distinguish them form a sea chanty.

    Do you think the problem is with the progression, the melody, the accompaniment or is it "just" instrumentation?
     
  4. #4 Duncan Formosa, Jul 14, 2023
    Well you definitely nailed the monkey Island vibe down for sure!

    I'm not sure about Irish songs in minor. I'd imagine there must be but I can't think of any at the top of my head. Having said that, Jiggs and reels are supposed to be quite light hearted so you can dance to so the majority will be major I think.

    The accordion/concertina is a traditional Celtic instrument yes, but I think the context in which you use it in this piece doesn't feel Celtic like. You have it kind of going oom cha cha which I don't think fits the vibe you are going for.

    It's hard for me to say for sure when I'm not at the piano but I think it's mainly the chords and the rhythm that are the main issue here. The instruments themselves seem fine, but the context in which they are being used aren't fitting the Irish vibe.

    Once I have the chance to sit at the piano and delve into it I might be able to help a bit more
     
    Michael Lückgen likes this.
  5. #5 Michael Lückgen, Jul 14, 2023
    I know the obvious progression for an irish song would be something I IV Vish but then I could not get it similar to the MI main theme...

    I'm unsure how much of the irish idiom I should use for the theme. The MI theme is also not that typical reggea song.
    I imagined the songs within the game to be closer to the traditional irish vibe though.

    But nonetheless the use of the instruments should be legit. Will probably have to do some more transcribing.

    Would be great to have some more input if you have some time! Thank you!
     
  6. #6 Michael Lückgen, Jul 14, 2023
    btw, here is the score to it:

     
  7. #7 Tom Welsh, Jul 14, 2023
    Writing in 6/8 for that 'jig' feel would help you along way to getting to an unmistakable irish sound.
     
    Michael Lückgen likes this.
  8. #8 Duncan Formosa, Jul 28, 2023
    There's a chance I've waffled through this cause I'm not very good with words but hopefully I've said some things that might help you out

     
    Michael Lückgen likes this.
  9. #9 Michael Lückgen, Jul 29, 2023
    Thank you very much for taking the time Duncan!

    I know definitely what you mean if you say it feels more like a pirate tune than an irish/celtic tune. But looking at it again, I don't think it's because of the chords, but rather the melody.
    The little tune you played in your video sounds way more irish/celtic to me. So I think I will try to work repeating notes into the melody and see if that works. Maybe even switching to 6/8.

    I will keep you updated!
     
  10. #10 Michael Lückgen, Jul 29, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2023
    Okay, here are two new versions of the theme. Hopefully they sound more irish now.
    Let me know what you all think.





    EDIT:
    Another one in Major this time. Just to see if it will make a difference
     
  11. #11 Duncan Formosa, Aug 2, 2023
    It's still not giving an irish vibe. Too pirate like.

    Still convinced it's the chord progression that's the issue. It's not something you would typically hear in celtic music. The chords probably matter more than adding more notes in your melody.

    I preferred your first version of the melody, that was a strong version of that theme and I could hum it back easily. It's just not got the vibe I think you're looking for. As a piece on it's own without knowing it's supposed to be Irish I think it's a nice little piece.

    Personally, I would put this piece aside and leave it as it is as just a pirate/monkey island style thing cause I think it works on it's own like that and try the irish thing from scratch. Transcribe more celtic tunes, figure out what gives it that sound on piano only, forget the instrumentation, look at how the melodies are constructed and the progressions that are used
     
    Michael Lückgen likes this.
  12. #12 Michael Lückgen, Aug 2, 2023
    Yeah, I will leave it for now and transcribe some more when I am able to.

    The piece does not necessarily has to be Irish, but it would fit the Celtic setting of the game so I thought it should be like that while still being similar to monkey Island. Maybe it's okay for this main title to suggest Celtic with the instruments only... Not sure.

    Thanks for the feedback, I will keep learning
     
  13. #13 Duncan Formosa, Aug 2, 2023
    Like I said, the original idea is good. And I can hear an improvement in your melodies and structure. You're pieces are becomming a lot easier to follow and this one I could repeat the main theme back very quickly which is good. So you're on the right track in terms of learning how to write. Keep it up!
     
    Michael Lückgen likes this.
  14. #14 Daniele Nasuti, Aug 12, 2023
    don't know about the idiom, but compositionally it's interesting, even funny with that accordion.

    About the sounds probably depends where the game will be played. To me seems like old sounds of a PlayStation 1 game for what I remember, don't know if that was intentional.
     
  15. #15 Michael Lückgen, Aug 13, 2023
    Even the first version sounds like playstation 1 to you?
    I have actually some good samples on there.
    The other versions I made are made with noteperformer, that os probably the sound you mean?

    The game is a pixel art graphic adventure, so low res sounds would actually be fine :)
     
  16. #16 Daniele Nasuti, Aug 13, 2023
    yeah, I mean the first version. From 0,05 becomes kind of cheap sounding, and even more from 0,13
    Remembers me the soundtrack of Tombi! both for sounds and genre.
    Probably it's also because there is too little reverb, specially on flute and accordion, but on sounds better if you ask other people here that know much more than me

    that's only what I noticed
     
  17. #17 Michael Lückgen, Aug 13, 2023
    Oh okay. To be honest I have no idea how to mix and master so my production probably always sounds cheap.
    Would be interested to learn the basics at some point though if someone has good resources for this
     
  18. #18 Daniele Nasuti, Aug 13, 2023
    I'm not the right person for that, probably I know less than you :D

    ...youtube of course, or private lessons and forums like this!
     
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